Their Money or Your Life.

Workplace Safety vs Compliance Costs.

Brooke van Velden appeared this morning on Q&A, presumably paying homage to Margaret Thatcher. The robotic one had come in an 80s pink, shoulder-padded jacket, much favoured by the likes of Thatcher or Hosking. She also brought the spirit of Margaret, seemingly occupying her previously vacant soul compartment.

Jack asked for some opening remarks and then as she warbled on looked as if he was regretting it and wondering if she might ever stop for a question. What could he do? The lady’s not for interrupting.

By the way if you didn’t see it, and would like to, the full interview is here:

Jack told Minister van Velden that twice as many Kiwis die in the workplace as Aussies. Fully four times as many as in the UK. He asked her - why?

Brooke nodded along, it was hard to imagine what she was thinking. She said it was a good question and that she didn’t think it was right that we still had people dying at work. I could imagine her supporters nodding, “too bloody right, let them die on their own time.”

She said she wanted to look after workers, and then following a silent, but loud, “but” said she was concerned about compliance costs for businesses. I had a horrible thought that she was about to announce that henceforth businesses could just tip their less alive staff off a boat or pier into the harbour, as an environmentally friendly and cost effective solution.

Jack asked her why she thought it was so high, and sure enough out came the standard coalition answer - it was a range of factors. It became clear that, at the end of the day, costs and regulations were Brooke’s biggest concerns. Rather than workers coming home alive, at the end of the day.

Then Tame asked about specific things she’d do, in particular to address deaths related to machinery and equipment, and working at height, for example with scaffolding, which account for approximately 80% of our workplace deaths.

Brooke was coy on possible change but she wanted to be clear that “it’s not ok”. Now, six months after the election, after years in opposition when she could have prepared alternatives, she wants to get back to basics and ask what health and safety is. Not a reassuring message from the minister in charge.

Jack pointed out that workers are 15 times more likely to die from a working related disease than a workplace accident. Brooke agreed that it was all very serious, which is why she would be undertaking a long review that she didn’t expect to finish this year.

Which seemed like a very relaxed approach, considering that people will keep on dying at the same rate in the meantime.

Asked about the role of Workplace Safety Inspectors, Brooke launched into a weird anecdote about a business being checked three times when a bloke down the road didn’t get checked at all. A classic tactic, avoiding saying that we don’t have anywhere near enough, by painting the service as dysfunctional. You know - the service she’s in charge of.

It would be like asking the Minister of Health if we should have more Doctors and him responding that he heard of a Doctor that saw one person three times and didn’t see another at all. I’m kidding, he’d probably tell you things would be safer if only we’d let workers smoke on the job.

The target for workplace inspectors is ten per 100,000 people, we currently have six. Jack asked the Minister if she thought increasing the number of inspectors would improve things. Brooke’s eyes lit up, she knew just what to say - “I think it’s a very good question”, she smiled triumphantly.

Then she started talking about streamlining and refocusing efforts. In case you’re unfamiliar with these euphemisms streamlining means having less people, doing more with less. It’s helped by refocusing efforts, which is a synonym for cutting services.

Jack asked again, again Brooke said it was a good question, they laughed. Who knew workplace deaths were so hilarious?

Jack pointed out that in Australia they have 11 per 100,000. Highlighting that they have twice as many inspectors, and we have twice as many deaths. He asked Brooke whether she thought the two could be related.

She said that she was focussed on reform and that you could get into “all the weeds and numbers if you want to.” Which was a bloody odd way to be talking about people getting killed at work.

The clear reality is we have a Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety who has no intention of increasing inspections, wants to avoid adding compliance costs to employers - and has no intention of doing anything to reduce the number of workplace deaths in this country.

That’s what happens when you put an advocate for business interests in a role that is supposed to look after the lives of workers.

Jack quoted from the advice that Brook received as incoming Minister. “Organisations inspected by Worksafe have lower rates of ACC claims compared to non-inspected organisations. Our inspectors do valuable work that prevents work injuries and deaths.”

I felt a bit ill seeing the Minister so blasé and unmoved by the idea of banning engineered stone in construction. Which they have in Australia, as it results in silicosis, an awful lung condition. Brooke said a ban might be reactionary, or not the right approach, and they needed to take time to consider the evidence.

I was getting the impression that Health and Safety under van Velden will mainly comprise of considering things, with a whole lot of doing bugger all.

In response to the suggestion of preemptively stopping people getting silicosis by putting a hold on the practice in the meantime, until they make a decision, Brooke replied - “We can’t just stop everything everytime we hear that there might be a potential red flag. Absolutely we have to look at the evidence, it’s a very developing situation.. ..so I can’t comment further on what we will do, but we want to take the time to get it right.”

With ACT running things I imagine any consideration of worker safety will be looked at for a long time. A very long time. Jack asked how long it would take, “any idea?”

Brooke smiled broadly, as one does when discussing something like silicosis in the lungs of construction workers, and said “you’re going to have to give me the time Jack”. Maybe she could offer those exact same words at the future funeral of a worker who has died from it - assuming his name was Jack.

Tame suggested that keeping compliance costs for businesses down was the Minister’s focus, rather than worker safety. Brooke grinned again, reassuring him that “both can work together.” Presumably at a somewhat glacial pace.

They moved to 90 day trials being extended. Jack asked what evidence she had that doing so would lead to more employers hiring.

Brooke took a 180 degree turn and found that unlike keeping tiny bits of silica out of the lungs of workers this was not something that required evidence. Instead she chose to revert once more to anecdotes.

She said, “just this week I had someone phone me up and he said yeah my business can’t wait to use this.” Which was pretty convincing and sounded totally real. Maybe someone with silicosis should give her a call and say, breathlessly, that it can’t wait?

They carried on, Brooke now 100% uninterested in data or evidence and fully backing reckons. Or as Jack put it “getting vibes from businesses”, rather than basing a decision on evidence, for which there is of course - none.

Brooke launched into a list of the things she said business wanted. Do keep in mind that she represents the interests of workers too.

“Getting rid of Fair Pay Agreements, making sure we were reinstating 90 day trials for all businesses, and also making sure that we are changing those very small compliance issues that businesses face every day. Things like the Holidays Act, which we are also doing.”

Jack moved to minimum wage changes. Some of you might recall that Brooke had pushed for an even smaller increase than that just made. He asked if she accepted that the significant increases in the minimum wage under the Labour government happened alongside historically low unemployment.

Brooke looked a bit uncomfortable, those facts didn’t fit the eternal right wing narrative than wage increases lead to lower employment - a strongly held belief, despite the fact that it doesn’t happen. She blathered about closed borders and other things during the period, unwilling to acknowledge the reality in the room.

They did move on to talk about Social Media safety in Brooke’s other portfolio but I kind of lost interest once she said it wasn’t a priority for her and offered up the cellphone ban in schools as something they were doing to keep kids safe.

The number of workplace deaths in this country is a scandal. It’s absolutely unacceptable and should be the top priority for the Minister of Workplace Safety. The fact that we essentially have a lobbyist representing business interests in the role is both appalling and also completely on-brand for this government.

It’s not a newsletter related song this time. Today Janis Ian turns 73. If you don’t follow her on Facebook I recommend doing so, she’s pretty wonderful.