Big Gun
John Campbell gives Christopher Luxon a less comfortable ride.
Big gun
Big gun number one
Big gun
Big gun kick the hell out of you
Songwriters: Ascencio / Marrow.
On Sunday, I wrote about the Prime Minister’s interview in India with Maiki Sherman and certainly didn’t think I’d be writing about another of his interviews two days later.
I’d been thinking of writing about something completely different, something other than Messrs Luxon, Peters, and Seymour, but a couple of things changed my mind:
I didn’t actually feel like I’d seen him interviewed. As I pointed out on Sunday, the pre-recorded interview with Maiki was basically an infomercial in which he boasted about a possible trade deal without touching on other, more tangible matters.
The interview was with John Campbell—what else do you need? Forget not having Jack Tame; here was the man himself. What had Luxon agreed to, I wondered. I smelled an ambush. Maybe he was expecting another easy ride with Jenny-May.
Bugger it; I totally get it if you don’t want to read about another Luxon interview - come back tomorrow for something different, but unlike Sunday’s Q&A, which I knew would be a non-event, this one excited me. I couldn’t imagine JC sitting there looking feeble while asking Patsy questions like Maiki or Jenny May.
He began, smiling into the camera and saying warmly, “Delighted to have your company.” You could tell he meant it, whereas, in Maiki’s interview, she looked terrified that if she said the wrong thing, she’d be biffed off the plane en route back to Aotearoa.
Crime was the topic following five violent gun attacks in public places over two days. John spoke of fears that people going to the supermarket or walking down the road might not be safe. Indications from the Police were that several other gun-related crimes had taken place but not been reported, meaning it was more like eight or nine incidents.
The camera split to show an enthusiastic Campbell on one side and Luxon, unsmiling, looking determined but vacant, on the other. He didn’t seem pleased to be back until John said the word “India”, at which point he smiled and even laughed for some reason - perhaps at John’s comment that it was nice to see each other.
Luxon managed to say, “It’s, it’s, it’s good to be with you, John”, but he really didn’t have much of a poker face. The pleasantries went back and forth awkwardly, like contestants on a reality show pretending to like one another just before stabbing each other in the back.
Luxon talked about his trip, saying “great” repeatedly and widening his eyes like a kid in a candy store. Campbell didn’t engage in that and went straight to gun crime because he’s a real journalist, not an ego-stroker.
John’s demeanour was immediately professional, and his body language was directive as he asked, “This isn’t what you said would happen, right? When you were campaigning against Labour’s - what you repeatedly called ‘soft on crime’ stance before the last election, saying you were introducing legislation after the election to respond on crime and get tough on it - what’s going on?”
Luxon didn’t look pleased to be back at all. He blinked a few times, and his brain whirred. Either that or he was being told what to say in his earpiece.
Given all he could muster was, “We’ve done some really good things”, you’d have to think it was the former, although perhaps not because he deliberately framed his answer around gangs rather than guns.
As if he was more comfortable selling the idea that gangs were bad than guns.
He ranted about gang statistics, as he had before the election. Still, John wasn’t just going to let him hijack the interview and shut his speech down with “Now it’s delivery time, so let’s move on from the rhetoric - what are you doing in the context of five gun crimes over the weekend … gun crime is increasing year on year, what are you actually doing?”
I thought it was glorious, but the Prime Minister did not. He sneered a statistic, saying, “Just so you know what the facts are.” Bad mistake, Christopher. JC is a pro, but clearly, when it comes to answering hard questions, your amateur status is intact.
“Where are those figures from?” he asked, and the PM froze like a Zoom call gone wrong, as if caught in a bluff. John explained to the PM that the Police don’t keep violent crime stats - which was news to me, although I imagined Luxon might’ve been quite pleased to hear it, and reiterated that there was lots of evidence that gun crimes were having a big start to the year.
Again, the PM went silent; who knows what happens in his head at times like this before mustering his old standby, “I’d just say to you…” Good grief—why hasn’t someone told him how ridiculous that meaningless catchphrase is?
Unbelievably, he started talking about the Police having powers with gang patches. I’m not entirely sure how comforting this would be should you find yourself shot at the supermarket - but good, oh. The PM went on and on about gangs, unable or unwilling to separate that from the issue of guns.
“Ain’t no one getting killed by a gang patch - it’s the guns that kill people”, said John. I may have fist-pumped. “What are you doing to get them off the streets?” he added.
What I would say to you… was that the PM did not attempt to answer the question; he went back to blathering about police powers with gangs, and JC did not look impressed even when Luxon said they would be “roof-lessly focussed” on gangs.
John asked about the Arms (Shooting Clubs, Shooting Ranges, and Other Matters) Amendment Bill, which is up for its third reading this week, under urgency no less, asking, “Why should Nicole McKee replace the Minister of Police in this legislation? It seems really strange to me. The police have said it’s strange—why is that happening?”
Luxon said that John was confusing two issues, which was mighty rich given the PM’s inability to tell the difference between gangs and guns, and then went back to talking about, you guessed it - gangs.
John explained that Chris Cahill, the President of the Police Association, had spoken about the gangs acquiring guns from legal buyers who were then on-selling them before the PM condescendingly told him he was “mixing his drinks.”
Campbell persisted and said, “Is Nicole Mckee, former gun lobbyist and spokesperson for the council of licensed firearm owners, now associate Justice Minister with responsibility for firearms, the right person to keep guns out of the hands of gangs?” All that the leader of our country could muster in response was that they were enhancing public safety.
John asked how they had enhanced public safety, adding, “Let’s leave aside the gang patches”, and how this bill would do so. Luxon listed gimmicky policies that are patently not keeping the public safe, but his attitude was very much - “trust us”.
They moved to National’s promise to increase police numbers by 500, with Campbell pointing out that we now have 50 fewer officers. He asked the PM, “How are you going on delivering on that target?” The time delay was back, and Luxon had to wait for the signal to be beamed to him via distant satellite before responding.
He waffled for a while but didn’t even look like he was convincing himself that the commitment would be met.
To finish, John asked if there would ever be a time when we would return to pre-March 15 regulations and allow the purchase of semi-automatic weapons. Struggling to get the PM to answer, he asked whether, in any shape or form, we should return to allowing the purchase of those machines that enable mass murder.
The PM refused to answer.
An exasperated Campbell again tried, “Prime Minister, sorry. Did you answer my question? Would there ever be a situation in which it would be okay to return to the pre-2020 situation?”
There was a long silence, and then, “I can’t imagine, but we’re yet to have those conversations in cabinet, and there is a range of considerations around firearms legislation that we need to look through as we re-write that arms act that is forty years old.”
How weak is that? You’re the Prime Minister of the country, and you can’t even say whether you’re going to bring back the weapons that were banned after a horrific terror attack.
It was a poor performance by the PM when faced with tough questioning and a bloody marvellous return for the national treasure that is John Campbell.
I will focus on the latter because the interview left me feeling surprisingly positive. Luxon has nothing. He is a weak leader who fails to deliver on his commitments and will be found out.
With so much to be despondent about in our mainstream media, it was great to see Campbell reminding us what real journalism looks like - long may it continue.
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Good morning John boy, to channel the Waltons. Methinks TVNZ will put JC back in the cupboard very fast…
Yes a very weak leader indeed. But we need him to stay at the helm so he can be squashed in the next election. Thank goodness for John Campbell still taking it to these idiots.