Winston First was a handbrake to progress during the 2017 - 2020 coalition government. Most of the real societal progress, wage rises for nurses, teachers, free prescriptions, 1/2 price transport etc etc happened during Labours second term despite the costs of Covid which were ginormous. Let Winston First be a handbrake to National and Act - it's the least they deserve for their arrogance and early joy, thinking they are the countries rightful rulers.
Certainly the clash of mega egos will be interesting. Seymour will consider himself the bigger bit player than Winston, ACT has more seats. Winston has the memory of an elephant and I can't see him forgetting all Seymour has said about him recently and he will hold all the aces - a direct poke in the eye to Seymour. He will also remember the Nats dirty leaking of his Superannuation overpayments and it cost him serious money in litigation costs. And Peters is unlikely to allow a rise in the pension age - a punch directly to the nose of Luxon. ( No I don't condone violence, pokes to the eyes or punches on the nose, but the analogies I do enjoy ).
Would love to be a fly on the wall when and if the fly in the ointment deal is thrashed out and some self thrashing by Luxon and Seymour won't go down prettily.
Lastly, and I don't enjoy the idea of a Nat run coalition ruining this country again, the voters caused this unholy mess and sometimes you get what you deserve. Pity the rest of us have to suffer the foolish actions of people who couldn't be bothered using the vital piece of equipment between their ears.
I agree, as much as I love the idea of a complete turn around...I think it is better that Chris Hipkins sticks to his guns, but is still the one who can negotiate with Winston in Opposition- the people get the mess they asked for, and in 3 years time people voting for people blow it out of the park.
Sorry, most people don't get what they asked for, because the bottom 25% of the IQ range have never had two original thoughts to rub together in their heads, can't see the BS, and vote for whoever makes the most noise or shows the most pictures on the sides of the roads or APPEARS on Television Broadcasts to have no doubts/know what they are doing. I rest my case.
It appears that the “left” holds its leaders to a higher standard than the”right.” To us, principles are more important than power for powers sake. Which is the Nat’s only reason for existence. At least with the coalition of chaos, we could be back in 2026.
Actually that’s my thinking. At some point the hard liners in ACT and National are going to get sick of Winston saying No. Their donors are also going to get ansty if they’re not getting what they paid for. Then it SHOULD be walk away time. But I suppose we can never account for the baubles of office being such an attraction.
The right have no principals or standards. Just look at how they do business cheat lie have shell companies so they can pay no tax or hardly any tax have trusts for the same reason Over all they really are the most corrupt people, but bullshit everyone that they are up standing citizen...yeah/nah
Agree with everything except the last point Nick 😆 If Chippy negotiated with Winston he'd be subjecting the Left bloc to the hounds of hell presently about to be visited on NACT. Jacinda had to compromise too much, as became clear later 😪 I think we have an opportunity for ❤️💚🖤 to get together and have the kinds of energising, creative and innovative korero that will build a powerful resistance and strategy for effective collaborative govt in 2026 😁
Yes Nick remembering 2017 and the power of Winnie! It’s happening all over again! Let’s see what kind of leader Luxon turns out to be? Go Winnie make his life miserable.
Seymore hmmmm……strong correlation with a weasel or stoat both vermin in this country both lack integrity. The king maker I hope causes him great angst. I don’t want his ilk being in power over those who desperately need protection
I am pleased that NZF is in the mix, so that the harsh policies of Act can be kept on a tight rein. I feel for the Public servants whose jobs are under threat, at least they will probably not be facing the miserable Christmas that could have been in store for them. Sorting out the way ahead will take time, let's hope that negotiations don't go on too long and that there is a satisfactory outcome.
Much as I support MMP, I find it bewildering that 8 MPs from NZ First, all List, have so much power to decide the future of our country. I've only heard of three or four of them ; because they were former MPs. The others have not faced any scrutiny though we are seeing one or two have some highly dangerous views. I don't think we should be kidding ourselves that NZ First is anything other than a Winston First party, perhaps with Shane Jones on the coat tails. I remember when Shane Jones was a Labour MP and Minister. I remember when he asked me to help get workers out to support Kelvin Davis in his selection. I remember his connections with Talleys and the funding that came from that anti union company last election. I remember a lot. So much as the numbers add up, I think let NZ First go for it and sadly, they will assist in the demise of our country again.
Yes but remember that the first 3years from 2017, Jacinda was able to mostly work with Winston and defuse some of his way out behaviour, to the extent that he lost the next election. Will he mentally be blaming her for this? For a young woman lowering his sense of importance? I’m not sure he will and that he actually might be finding himself in a difficult situation because he doesn’t want to align with Labour again, but can’t stand stand David Seymour. So he will be possibly trying to make a deal with Christopher Luxon that gives him power over David’s lot. So will he be successful? And if he isn’t successful, what will be his next move? Yes it all sounds convoluted but that’s the way it goes.
Younger voters need this reminder of the political history of NZF ( which came out of a rabid backward-thinking space, filled with Winston's cohorts (and still is).
And Quentin McD's spot on comment shows it's a red flag they're waving not a white flag!
Winston First was a handbrake to progress during the 2017 - 2020 coalition government. Most of the real societal progress, wage rises for nurses, teachers, free prescriptions, 1/2 price transport etc etc happened during Labours second term despite the costs of Covid which were ginormous. Let Winston First be a handbrake to National and Act - it's the least they deserve for their arrogance and early joy, thinking they are the countries rightful rulers.
Certainly the clash of mega egos will be interesting. Seymour will consider himself the bigger bit player than Winston, ACT has more seats. Winston has the memory of an elephant and I can't see him forgetting all Seymour has said about him recently and he will hold all the aces - a direct poke in the eye to Seymour. He will also remember the Nats dirty leaking of his Superannuation overpayments and it cost him serious money in litigation costs. And Peters is unlikely to allow a rise in the pension age - a punch directly to the nose of Luxon. ( No I don't condone violence, pokes to the eyes or punches on the nose, but the analogies I do enjoy ).
Would love to be a fly on the wall when and if the fly in the ointment deal is thrashed out and some self thrashing by Luxon and Seymour won't go down prettily.
Lastly, and I don't enjoy the idea of a Nat run coalition ruining this country again, the voters caused this unholy mess and sometimes you get what you deserve. Pity the rest of us have to suffer the foolish actions of people who couldn't be bothered using the vital piece of equipment between their ears.
I agree, as much as I love the idea of a complete turn around...I think it is better that Chris Hipkins sticks to his guns, but is still the one who can negotiate with Winston in Opposition- the people get the mess they asked for, and in 3 years time people voting for people blow it out of the park.
Sorry, most people don't get what they asked for, because the bottom 25% of the IQ range have never had two original thoughts to rub together in their heads, can't see the BS, and vote for whoever makes the most noise or shows the most pictures on the sides of the roads or APPEARS on Television Broadcasts to have no doubts/know what they are doing. I rest my case.
PS And Smirking Seymour knows this perfectly well....just like Hitler.
It appears that the “left” holds its leaders to a higher standard than the”right.” To us, principles are more important than power for powers sake. Which is the Nat’s only reason for existence. At least with the coalition of chaos, we could be back in 2026.
and possibly sooner
Actually that’s my thinking. At some point the hard liners in ACT and National are going to get sick of Winston saying No. Their donors are also going to get ansty if they’re not getting what they paid for. Then it SHOULD be walk away time. But I suppose we can never account for the baubles of office being such an attraction.
The right have no principals or standards. Just look at how they do business cheat lie have shell companies so they can pay no tax or hardly any tax have trusts for the same reason Over all they really are the most corrupt people, but bullshit everyone that they are up standing citizen...yeah/nah
Yup, don't rule it out of hand. But do keep in mind that NZF in 2023 makes NZF in 2017 look like a bunch of woke liberals.
Agree with everything except the last point Nick 😆 If Chippy negotiated with Winston he'd be subjecting the Left bloc to the hounds of hell presently about to be visited on NACT. Jacinda had to compromise too much, as became clear later 😪 I think we have an opportunity for ❤️💚🖤 to get together and have the kinds of energising, creative and innovative korero that will build a powerful resistance and strategy for effective collaborative govt in 2026 😁
If the public start paying attention, this ❤️💚🖤 opposition will really show them what a government should be about.
Ka tautoko!! 😁
Yes Nick remembering 2017 and the power of Winnie! It’s happening all over again! Let’s see what kind of leader Luxon turns out to be? Go Winnie make his life miserable.
Seymore hmmmm……strong correlation with a weasel or stoat both vermin in this country both lack integrity. The king maker I hope causes him great angst. I don’t want his ilk being in power over those who desperately need protection
Very thought provoking, but enticing none the less!!
Thanks for looking into that with great depth of thought. Goodness knows what the future holds whatever decision Sir makes!
I am pleased that NZF is in the mix, so that the harsh policies of Act can be kept on a tight rein. I feel for the Public servants whose jobs are under threat, at least they will probably not be facing the miserable Christmas that could have been in store for them. Sorting out the way ahead will take time, let's hope that negotiations don't go on too long and that there is a satisfactory outcome.
Oh I don't know - Belgium's post election period of negotiating lasted 541 days before the swearing in. Imagine!
Wow! I don't think I can get my head around that! Does that mean that the "caretaker government" carries on? How interesting that would be!
Much as I support MMP, I find it bewildering that 8 MPs from NZ First, all List, have so much power to decide the future of our country. I've only heard of three or four of them ; because they were former MPs. The others have not faced any scrutiny though we are seeing one or two have some highly dangerous views. I don't think we should be kidding ourselves that NZ First is anything other than a Winston First party, perhaps with Shane Jones on the coat tails. I remember when Shane Jones was a Labour MP and Minister. I remember when he asked me to help get workers out to support Kelvin Davis in his selection. I remember his connections with Talleys and the funding that came from that anti union company last election. I remember a lot. So much as the numbers add up, I think let NZ First go for it and sadly, they will assist in the demise of our country again.
Add to previous comment "people and planet" vs money
Hi Nick
Yes but remember that the first 3years from 2017, Jacinda was able to mostly work with Winston and defuse some of his way out behaviour, to the extent that he lost the next election. Will he mentally be blaming her for this? For a young woman lowering his sense of importance? I’m not sure he will and that he actually might be finding himself in a difficult situation because he doesn’t want to align with Labour again, but can’t stand stand David Seymour. So he will be possibly trying to make a deal with Christopher Luxon that gives him power over David’s lot. So will he be successful? And if he isn’t successful, what will be his next move? Yes it all sounds convoluted but that’s the way it goes.
I meant to add - thank you for the music from the incomparable Shirley Bassey.
Younger voters need this reminder of the political history of NZF ( which came out of a rabid backward-thinking space, filled with Winston's cohorts (and still is).
And Quentin McD's spot on comment shows it's a red flag they're waving not a white flag!
I predict Winnie will be VERY mean to Seymour!! Let the 'coalition of chaos' begin.
I think you're right.
Wait for winston to approach? Ha, that would show weather nzf were interested in people or money!