Never Ceded
Tania Waikato on Q&A.
Ka whati te moana nui – e tā!
Ka whati te moana roa – e tā!
Ka mānu, ka mānu tonu e tā – e tā
Though the seas may roar
And the oceanic expanse rage
You will remain afloat
Ka Mānu, Nā Rob Ruha, 2019
I’ve often begun a write-up of Q&A by saying Christopher Luxon wouldn’t appear to face Jack Tame, but today Mr Tame himself was not present.
Perhaps he was on leave, though I’d like to think he was too afraid to front Tania Waikato, not because Jack lacks bravery but because the Green Party candidate is so formidable.
In Tame’s place was Simon Mercep, who has always struck me as one of the nice guys in the media, and I’ve seen him at protests reporting the story and showing that reporters can gently enquire how people are feeling, not just look for soundbites.
They began talking about Tania’s activism and organisation in response to the Treaty Principles Bill, the Regulatory Standards Bill and moves to marginalise the teaching and acknowledgement of te Tiriti.
Asked why she was making the move to stand for parliament, Waikato said it wasn’t something she necessarily wanted to do, but under this government, it has become something she had to do. A similar attitude to others who are opting to stand for Labour and the Greens for the first time from high-profile backgrounds, because they feel they have to do something about what is happening to our country.
She said people had asked her to stand due to her background and that she would be there for our people, not just Māori, but all those doing it tough under the coalition.
Some might wonder why stand for the Greens rather than Te Pāti Māori, but to my mind, the bills Tania has opposed and the issues she cares about are not single-party issues. I’m glad that the party I support acknowledges Māori and te Tiriti concerns as well as the other things they are associated with.
To put it another way, many of us have come too far for Te Tiriti to be the sole domain of Te Pāti Māori.
Simon said that constitutional reform was important to Tania and asked her what that looked like. Waikato said she was glad he’d asked and held her hands up, saying just yesterday she had He Whakaputanga tattooed on one forefinger and te Tiriti o Waitangi on the other, with the phrase “never ceded” across her thumbs.
Tania said she had them done before coming on the show because we are in the process of realising where we came from as a country. A long process that has lasted almost 200 years, and what we’re seeing from educators and across the wider community is a greater understanding of the two documents, He Whakaputanga and Te Tiriti o Waitangi.
As for where we go from here, Waikato said it was quite simple, that we need to see these historic documents as underpinning, not separate from, our legal and political systems, which acknowledge them to an extent, but, as we’ve seen from the coalition, that can be reversed.
To transform our constitutional framework, we need to ensure that Te Tiriti is the foundation of those systems, not merely something to be considered and given lip service to.
Simon asked, looking across both Māori and non-Māori communities, how much support there would be for such a move. Tania was prepared after two years of opposition, particularly the response to the government's efforts to make giving effect to te Tiriti an optional extra rather than a mandatory requirement.
72% of schools indicated they wanted to continue, and I’m sure there were people in all those communities who were proud of their schools for doing so, as I was of the school my kids had attended. That’s a lot of schools saying that te Tiriti is important, even if the government says it isn’t.
Tania said she can see the country maturing. I see that too, yes, from within my bubble, but it feels like a large and growing bubble of people who oppose this government's actions. Of people who learn through opposition, which is the last thing I’m sure David Seymour wanted when he turned his libertarian party into one that didn’t respect a legal contract.
She spoke of Te Tiriti as a key thing that brings us together rather than divides us, again, not the intention of those who have been barking warnings that simply don’t ring true if you take the time to learn.
The government is trying to use Te Tiriti to divide us, but it can also bring us together.
Simon asked her about being ‘fierce’, noting her candidate description on the Green Party page, which says, “A mother, lawyer and fierce advocate for change and social justice.” Tania laughed at the question with a confident, charismatic manner, born of years of leadership.
Mercep asked her, given that she would encounter people she disagreed with, how she would compromise. I did have to stifle the idea of Tania putting David Seymour straight on a few things, but I have no doubt she could conduct herself professionally and constructively, besides which it’s not like Seymour is any good at listening anyway.
“I can be pretty charming when I want to be, Simon”, she responded, and he did indeed look quite charmed.
Tania said she was a forthright advocate, a litigator by profession; her job is to persuade people of her point of view, but at the same time, she is a mother and a healer. To me, she sounded grounded and mature, and as she spoke of interacting with people in all walks of life, I thought that is what we need more of. National and ACT seem very removed from the lives and experiences of many in this country.
“There’s no one that I can’t talk to,” she said. Simon, with a mischievous smile, said, “Even David Seymour and Winston Peter, whom you said it would be hard not to punch”, but who amongst us has not thought how punchable Seymour is without actually doing so.
Of course, while you and I might consider Seymour receiving the punch in the chops that he so richly deserves to be the joke intended, the humourless bunch at Hobson’s Pledge used it as a weapon to paint Tania negatively, which she took as a compliment.
That an organisation with wealthy backers and a high profile felt so intimidated by a Māori woman speaking up for te Tiriti, before even being elected, that they felt the need to lash out.
Tania agreed that that sort of humour might not be appropriate when she becomes an MP, but pointed out that David Seymour had made light of blowing up the Ministry of Pacific Peoples. She thought it was a bit rich of Hobson’s Pledge and the people who support ACT to make that into an issue when nobody had batted an eyelid over Seymour’s fantasies of destruction.
Moving to the election, Tania was asked if she was primarily campaigning for the Party vote rather than the electorate vote in Waiariki. She said she wouldn’t be standing if people there hadn’t asked her to, so they could vote for her. That she wouldn’t be standing lightly, and the electorate was a huge challenge.
Avoiding criticising the infighting that has taken place in Tē Pāti Māori, she said that people would make up their minds on who to vote for based on the mahi done, and if you’ve followed Tania on Social Media, you’ll know she is hard-working and relentless. I respected her for focusing on what she brings, not what others may have done.
It was about mana, she said, something that, in my view, many other politicians lack but which should be paramount when choosing a leader.
Asked about the margin that the incumbent Rawiri Waititi had, she smiled and said that wasn’t relevant because she wasn’t running then.
Tania is in 13th place on the Green Party list. As Simon pointed out, hers is the highest position of a non-MP and, based on recent polling, she would become an MP in November, but it’s tight.
Waikato said she’d actually requested a position after the current sitting MPs, but that wasn’t possible as the Green Party puts such matters to the members to decide. She was honoured to have been entrusted by the party members with a position that puts her right on the cusp of joining parliament.
It was a strong interview with someone who knows why they are running, understands the challenge, but is fully up for it, come what may.
Without the threat of physical violence, I don’t think David, Winston, or Christopher will know what’s hit them.
If you missed it this morning and want to watch, you can find the clip here:
Have a good Sunday, folks, especially all the Mums out there, who I hope are being recognised for how important and appreciated they are.
Ngā mihi,
Nick.
To end today here’s Ka Mānu by Rob Ruha:
She is impressive and formidable and I hope she gets in.
Wasn’t she incredible? I follow her on social media but today was the first interview I’ve seen.
Additional to your comments Nick, I want to add she was aware and spoke respectfully to Te Ao Māori and Pakeha experiences. While being grounded in the actual constitutional challenges Aotearoa has had and how we need to come back to our foundations.
Her humility and humbleness within her acknowledging her role and expectations as opposed to choice to stand, sung of her mana and commitment
Inspired 😃