I see this bill as a move to promote self interest of the dominant white privileged minority over those who choose to be part of our community of all people. We are all different in appearance, culture and environment, we must resist this bill and the person, with every peaceful means available. We must never go back to the White dominant ruling class of past centuries!
Māori & woman have had a 40-50 yr fight to gain equality with the white male in NZ society. We will not go back to those Patricial White Male days of the 1940's 50's
Thanks Nick. The whole scenario is a sick, dangerous, dark fantasy. There was no reason to give it six months, apart from providing Seymour with a platform to projectile vomit his rhetoric. It will be unrelenting, whether we want it or not. Luxon and his ridiculous justifications - he was the naive one, but we're paying for it.
Do you really think he is naive? Or is his stupidly just because he’s a puppet and his puppeteer’s support Seymour as it provides a cover for so many more damaging changes occurring in a cloak of duplicity? I’m veering towards the second myself
The naive reference was really a response to his own comments, or should that be gaslighting, regarding compromises as part of coalition agreements. I do think he is naive in thinking that this wouldn't blow back on him. His "no responsibilities" approach to being PM has not precluded him from being responsible for EVERYTHING and we should keep reminding him of where our buck stops, and it should be uncomfortable.
Same. The coalition have been transparent with their agenda since day 1. And moving at pace. Know the enemy. I notice the Albanese labour zone in Australia is now being flooded with shit!
Isn't Seymour in parliament by virtue of the National party giving him a free pass on the Epsom seat? Luxon could end this nonsense now. But that would take stem cell surgery to grow a spine.
Well said Neil. It continually irks me the likes of Jones, and others who seem to have voice and be powerbrokers, as in making changes, and they are there by being on the list, not having had to win electorates. (Jones didn't) But maybe our electorates have turned trumplike, they threw out a good government, not perfect, but with good heart and handling shite........and doing it's best for more kiwis than just the rich...........yes mate, I am in a state of irk............but balancing that with my own joy...............just not a lot of that in politics...............but some fricken inspiring haka on and off the field. :-)
That used to be the case with the Epsom jackup when ACT polled way lower. But even if Epsom disappears Seymour will be back provided ACT poll over 5%. And they are about double that at present.
Tautoko all of the above comments. I strongly agree with Jane - the equality piece of the Bill is the clincher - manipulation in action, for those who have no idea or inclination to understand the genesis of Te Tiriti and history of breaches.
I struggle to come up with a succinct response to the equality piece because I have found people don’t have the interest or bandwidth to take it in in a conversation (esp when minds are so made up) or do their own critical thinking on this one.
I watched the Q&A yesterday and I believe Debbie and all Maori and pro treaty politicians have to get more succinct and savvy with their messaging.
Yes Janine a convo to a closed mind is really challenging. There is a really lovely graphic out there that illustrates what we are trying to explain. This is the guts of it in a wordy way:
In Aotearoa New Zealand, equity is different from equality because equity acknowledges that people have different circumstances and needs, and allocates resources to help them reach an equal outcome:
Equality
Treating everyone the same by giving each person the same resources or opportunities.
Equity
Recognizing that people have different starting points and needs, and providing what each person needs to reach an equal outcome.
For example, if three people are trying to see over a fence, equality would be giving each person the same-sized box to stand on. Equity would be giving each person a box that is the right height for them to see over the fence, such as a step ladder for the basketball player and something much higher for the 6-year-old.
👍💯My favourite illustration! Perhaps we need it on a T-shirt - Nick was asking for feedback a while ago to counter people cancelling subs & I suggested merch - this would be PERFECT & me who doesn't usually do so would absolutely buy & wear everywhere! It is succinct, accurate, timely, and actually non-political as it is just facts 🤷🤔👏
Absolutely agree! Especially your comment re 'bandwith' it's exactly the wall that I encounter every time I attempt to challenge people who have such a simplistic view about what 'equality' means and how Maori have NEVER been afforded this luxury
Nick, I always enjoy your writing, but this time I think you've blown it all out of the water!!! Excellently written, and I agree with you 100%. As I read various posts and opinion pieces last night, it became more and more clear to me just what David Seymour, who still denies any association with the Atlas Network as far as I am aware, is a very active agent for this right-wing group, and that his real intention is to open up Aorearoa up to much more exploitation than it already is right now! He's dangerous to our society, which was successfully becoming a more tolerant place to be, applying the concept of kotahitanga well in recent years. I do believe that his obnoxious interventions have brought many of us closer together, but now we must apply our closeness by fighting his evil together, strongly and proudly. We must ALL make our submissions to his foul Select Committee and let him know how we feel about it, and work hard to counter the huge amount of disinformation he and his ilk will spread with their vast amounts of money on social media, etc, and we MUST win this battle. Then maybe we can convince him to go back to Canada and try to spread his bile around there, leaving this great little country to thrive as a successful multicultural society. Toitu te Tiriti!!!
Just read a post on Facebook which shows quite conclusively that Seymour is the Aotearoa agent for Atlas which in turn is a part of a much wider right wing group. The objective is to ensure anything or anyone stopping their pursuit of wealth is to be vilified and nullified. Taxpayers Union and other millionaires such as Gibbs family are those using Seymour who is of course a willing stooge educated by Atlas in Canada.
Seymour can't be an agent for Atlas, surely!? If he denies it, it must be true. A bit like that American guy, Trumpet, Strumpet, Dumpit, something like that, who's never heard of the 2025 Project for making America great (or grate) again. They wouldn't lie to us Mac, no way😱
👍💯I also follow Mountain Tui for Aotearoa updates (& some global) and there have been photos posted of Seymour at the top table at Atlas events... Unfortunately most people don't dig deep enough to even KNOW who these groups in the background are, let alone the significance of his associations, but as one of the Hikoi leaders said, all of us have to be the educators in our own spaces. For instance, an elderly relative was gobsmacked & distressed when he was told why ex-PM Jacinda & family can't safely come back to Aotearoa to live due to the unhinged hateful people who would harass her child, her husband, & say they want to rape, kill, hang, shoot, burn-at-the-stake Jacinda herself - how can anyone NOT know this⁉️😱 So with "equality" v "equity" & the truth of Te Tiriti - if we have the chance to educate ❤️🤍🖤
My work mate is an ACT supporter. He has no interest so far in looking into the Atlas network, but he is anti trump and shocked at Project 2025. He hasnt yet connected the dots. We need to help these people connect the dots.
There's nothing free and equal about the Act vision. Libertarians always seem to want to retain the police and army bits of the state to protect property rights which assumes an unequal spread of resources. And no doubt this isn't about rights at all, just the dismantling of environmental protections which would follow on from any weakening of Te Tiriti.
TJ Perenara's addition to the Haka was a stroke of genius. More so because he had support from all involved in the tour. I wonder how long it will take for the whingers to compare it to Hana-Rawhiti's also genius slap in the face of Seymour and his attempts to dilute or destroy any mana or culture Maori are trying to keep alive and relevant in their own country. Will they say that the AB's disgraced themselves and their country by their actions? Perhaps the call for suspension from the next World Cup would teach the blighters a lesson? No oranges at half time for the rest of the season? There's bound to be some who think our reputation overseas has been somewhat soured. For my money, a better farewell to a great career has never been made in any field. Well done TJP! On all counts.
So a serious question is how to respond in a brief coherent way to the section in the bill about equality. This section is agreeable to most people. It is a critical issue. It is the part which will galvanise support for the bill? Villifying any party or person does not help with that.
I approach it like this when I talk to people - look around at the Māori you know and see in society, your work mates, whoever - do you see any Māori privilege? We have a Bill of Rights, the fact that we seek to honour the Treaty, and in recognition of our failure to honour it to date have developed these Treaty Principles to give Māori a fair go is not a threat to anyone. Take a look at who gets more in this society, who has more say, control, and power - because it sure ain't Māori.
But I think vilification, or to use another word, opposition, is vital as the more Luxon realises people hate this bill the more likely he is to stick to his word and not support it through further readings or to a referendum.
Opposition is very important but it needs to include reasoned response not simply personal abuse. That is why i used the term. I appreciate this response.
Seymour in his capacity as a government minister and effectively one party to the treaty is advocating the terms and conditions of the treaty are changed without agreement of the other party. There is no instance in civilized society or New Zealand where a unilateral adjustment of a treaty or contract is acceptable. It is illegal and immoral.
Referring to the equality I don't see how the referendum can possibly be equal when there's obviously more Pakeha than Maori which is where equity comes in (correct me if I'm wrong). What I find interesting in our country is that Pakeha & Maori have mixed & matched happily over the years but some Pakeha don't recognize their Maori side & some Maori don't recognize their Pakeha side it seems to reflect on how you have been brought up.If the education system hadn't been so biased in the first place it may have made a big difference to how a lot of people view our country.
🙋From personal experience, I don't know many (if any) who identify as Maori who deny their other heritage/side. It seems simply that their PRIDE & cultural identity is for their Maori whakapapa so that is more meaningful & fulfilling 1) because that is their indigenous roots & 2) Pakeha/European "culture" is... What⁉️ Colonisation of other peoples by the elites while also treating their own poor & uneducated abominably? and/or being the poor/uneducated that were being treated abominably by the elites running their countries?
Sure if you dig there is "culture" on our Pakeha side, but 🤷⁉️
Apologies, as this is rather a long response! It's difficult to counter someone who, like Seymour, uses the language of universal human rights to oppress people who do not have equity, which of course is different to equality, as many people do not understand the difference between equality and equity. I teach human rights at a university, and arguments between 'universalists' and 'cultural relativists' in human rights have been going on for decades. A theorist named Jack Donnelly is useful (see for example Donnelly. 1984. Cultural relativism & universal human rights. Human Rights Quarterly, 6(4), 400-419) if you want to follow up this argument. Donnelly would describe Seymour as a radical universalist who uses the language of moral imperialism to conceal his real agenda. Here's an example: David Seymour said (12 October 2024, on Facebook): “Each of us is united by universal humanity. The same rights, the same dignities for every person. That is what has driven all the good movements in human history.” Hmmmmm ... BUT what about rights for people who are marginalised, oppressed, and disadvantaged? What about equity? What about restorative justice? Affirmative action? In Aotearoa New Zealand ‘positive discrimination’ is recognised as a lawful means of achieving equality. Donnelly (1984, p. 402) says “The dangers of the moral imperialism implied by radical universalism hardly need be emphasized. Radical universalism, however, is subjected to other moral objections as well. Moral rules, including human rights, function within a moral community. Radical universalism requires a rigid hierarchical ordering of the multiple moral communities to which individuals and groups belong. In order to preserve complete universality for basic rights, the radical universalist must give absolute priority to the demands of the cosmopolitan moral community over all other (‘lower’) moral communities. This complete denial of national and subnational ethical autonomy and self-determination is dubious at best.” I don't know whether this will help you respond to peoples' lack of understanding of 'equality' and 'equity' but you can try! It's often easier to just say look bro, it's a corporatisation agenda concealed by holier-than-thou bullshit rhetoric.
I can just add here: Claiming to support universal humanity and equal rights while actively working against the rights of a specific group contradicts the very principles of equality and dignity for all. True advocacy for universal human rights requires respecting and upholding the rights of every community, especially those historically marginalised or oppressed.
Totally agree Nick and really really proud of the AB's and not for the rugby, but this expression. As to the polite discussion or debate on the bill. It will be like the Oz version, there is so much silent and not so silent racism and ignorance out there, and peeps who peddle the 'maori elite' BS bandwagon. From what I have read in comments on several online spaces......there is nothing but vile hatred and antiquated views around race and equality..............totally ugly and depressing to read. So discussion, national discussion.............depends on media getting to truth and sharing it, depends on people being able to depolarise themselves and ask honest questions and challenge their world views. That don't happen easily, the wagons circle to prevent penetration and attack. Why is it many of us know what happened in Australia's dark underbelly of a history.................and yet they voted 'no' instead of 'yes'. I honestly have no hope that if such a referendum happens here , the result would be different. And I feel so ashamed having that dim view of my own fellow country people............but reading the comments of these online spaces, if they are even real people.................it's ugly and depressing, yet we seem to have a world where those voices are loudest, or silently admired and agreed with.
SO LOVE the cartoons in this excellent read NIck. Being a visual, I share my own 'visual' resistance to SeyLess and his schmuckery. Try'n to be positive, try'n to fight, try'n to not be overwhelmed into silence. After all a choir is made up of combined single voices, to become and sound like one voice.
As an Aussie, I felt a great deal of sadness and shame over the "No" vote for giving the founding Nation of Australia a voice in government that would be heard, heeded and included in the future plans for my country of birth and formative years. I'm also an AotearoaNZ citizen. I became one partly because of the above and partly because, after living here for over 50 years, I thought I'd probably stay so should make the effort. I would like to think I won't have two countries to be ashamed of. Seymour and Co must be brought to heel before they destroy the social fabric we have enjoyed for so long. All who live in Godzone deserve much better than that.
totally true Jeremy. in some ways it's like so much in the world, and that don't make it right eh, the majority is not always right. there is a dark underbelly (my fav word / term today :-) that exists like an underground stream, mostly in silence and not making it's presence known. then along comes something like this bill, or the Voice in OZ and you find out that what you knew was there on the edges of your consciousness and thought it was small, suddenly it is an underground river, torrent like and powerful...........and it goes against that fabric you mention, the fabric of kiwi society that was good. it goes against the fabric of who you/we are.
Then like you ...feelings of sadness and shame. especially when the mistruths and misinformation adhered to is so blatantly wrong, immoral and plain old ugly.
Opening our eyes to confront what is now evident is painful, the voices for justice and right seem muted in comparison, ineffectual in the current. how come we can open our eyes, be strong enough to re examine our positions, take on new information and 'they' can't. we can console ourselves partially by knowing it's not a new situation. america's not my fav word or space at the momento, but how long has the dark underbelly of racisim been there, like from the constitution and the equality of all, except the slaves and blacks. in oz, the hunting of the aboriginal as late as into the 50's, in Aotearoa there is much too much to mention against Maori and Pasifika that has been happening and not happening for generations.
Then the dark underbelly, the undegrground stream/river becomes real, and it's neighbours, friends and family. it takes a toll on us and responds to attention and roars the louder and threatens to over flow somewhere. thanks for engaging Jeremy, and choosing us. thanks for us having this conversation. (i am having a non caps kinda day, sorry)
Thanks for your reply MRC. Right on the money! Part of my growing up in Oz was as a jackeroo on a sheep station between Bourke and Brewarrina in western NSW. The hatred between black and white was more than an under current, it was there for all to see. White lines drawn on the floor of pubs, whites on one side, blacks on the other. The same for the only cinema in Bourke. I was advised to never go to Brewarrina because there was a big chance I wouldn't come back unscathed. I was 16 at the time with no idea how deep the divide was and probably still is. That's what disturbs me about what Seymour's mob is trying to introduce. Luxon isn't far behind with his comments about dissecting Te Tiriti and examining it bit by bit to see what can be done.
amazing eh..........I watch those movies about that time in Oz and find it hard to imagine people would be so cruel to ther human beings who are different.......and like the lynchings of the south..incredulous. Sheesh Jeremy....you have been there and lived it. I love the word mob, and forever will hear it as the aborigines use it. I love John Williamson, he makes me wanna be an ozzy. Songs about the land, Ullaru, The Drovers Boy............NZ doesn't have anyone like that, who sings and knows kiwi culture and makes ozzies wannabe kiwis LOL. Even Fred Dagg ended up over there.
I don't know why there cannot be more beauty and understanding and listening than perpetuating myths and misnomers. Whats ya take on pavalova? :-) Conflicted, or more important shite to think about. Have a neat wiki mate. Enjoying talking.......almost a lost art. Am enjoying a NetFlix series about a huge station up in the northern territory. Lotsa black fella issues and greed for the land. 1 episode to go. Been saving it up.
I don't really have a take on pavlova. As a citizen of both countries I can't lose😁....... Or win😕. Oz is a fabulous country to visit just to see and feel how vast it is. Mustering sheep in 40C temperature isn't much fun but the landscape and wildlife are well worth a look. Lying in a paddock at night looking up at the stars still stays with me vividly. The nearest manmade light pollution was about 50km away in any direction. Bliss. You just have to dodge the snakes😂
Totally agree with you McKinleyRd - I too feel the despair! Today I read an excellent article on newsroom by David Williams titled “Lessons from a damaged island on a potential treaty referendum” - basically lessons learnt by a NZ born lawyer and co-founder of the Good Law Project in the UK that forced the UK Electoral Commission to re-open an investigation into the Brexit campaign spending and warning us that in the NZ context the NZ’s legislative complacency provides fertile ground for a well funded misinformation campaign leading to a Brexit and The Voice style outcome a high likelihood if Te Tiriti goes to referendum. Scary…we must mount a more public campaign to respond to the growing platforms of misinformation and blatant racism regarding Te Tiriti, Maori and the Treaty Principles Bill. How can we get the voices of Nick, McKinleyRd Creative, Mountain Tui, Dr Bex et al out there to the wider public? So few of my friends and family even know about Substack until I share the articles with them.
Thanks Janine, will read that article. I think about that too, there are so many great people writing about stuff. I restack like a mad thing, but I have a feeling that it's a loop and the people that are open to a change of position or rational about evidence based writing and articles..........I don't know if the good oil gets to them........and the tribe or the converted, we basically encorage and keep ourselves to tack. Dunno, I could be wrong there....
My most radical self, thinks music, busking, street theatre...I would love that, and the other thing I do, not being on FB anymore, is poke a word in places that runs contrary to the flow of comments and maybe the patrons of online spaces.
So my 4 pronged approach is
1. Keep being me and creative, being as alive as alive as I can be.........if I am not me I have nothing to contribute, no fire, and no feisty soul to go into the frey.
2. Restack and promote articles on substack and other places, share notes, make notes......there is brilliant stuff out there...........and within that i want to be diverse too.........and not get in a rut.
3. Make graphics. I have those abilities and the software capacity...and the wit hopefully. I could make them for others.......and not AI stuff, which I think we become jaded to, as clever as it is.
4. Keep flying my flags in the top paddock
So those are my weapons............but I don't even know if people share that stuf or use it to get more traction .....it being a visual world and all that.
So thats my thinking...........but even in the election before I left FB, it was like being a voice in the wilderness.....................there are the favoured few that seem to get traction, while my take is promoting all who are in my tribe of resistance or revolution. Same old same old doesnt work........so trying to understand the enemy (for want of a better word), where they hang out, what are the chinks in their positions and arguments............and creatively try to take action that may just make a difference.................
That's a rave, and it's not the first time I have wondered about your question and said something about it. There comes a point where a collective approach will be more powerful.................instead of strong individualism...............but I dunno if we are there or will ever get there. It has to become about pushing others out of the nest to fly.............
Really appreciate you Janine. Have an awesome as Monday evening. I got some shizzel done today......and it feels good.
What you are doing is amazing - your strong individualism is inspiring- Kia kaha!
I wonder if among our community here in Substack there are networks to make contact with about a strategy, platform and messaging that reaches the wider mainstream community.
It would be interesting to know. A Collective For Change, and maybe with the focus of strategising and working at getting the message where it might be heard……..I would be in.
Still can't believe the fast-track bill gets five minutes consultation, and this bill gets six months so the forces of darkness and ignorance can convince the lazy and infirm to vote for it. Both are very dangerous, promoted by a completely hypocritical Coalition of Clowns.
Let me know if this article becomes sharable please.
By challenging challengers to his bill by asking them to ‘explain’ why his bill is bad is his attempt to wipe history. That horrific part when we landed and began stealing land, women, liberty. Do ya reckon he’s completed a Te Tiriti workshop anyone??
Seymour (and Atlas) have done something that every mischievous person who opens a conversation with "Is there any truth in the rumour that......" to sew seeds of doubt and fear in the minds of anyone who hears it, has done.
He has an agenda. He gets a lot of coverage in the "news", the makers of which need a sharp jolt to stop them knee-jerking into broadcasting his views.
I tend to ignore him, but I also tend to ignore the "news" too.
Brilliant Nick. Seymour is the cancer no one invited, very aptly put. But the trouble is his 'one law for all' is very catchy and hard to dispute and for many middle, average, and partially informed kiwis it resonates. I listened to him on Q&A with Jack Tame and his argument would have found favour with much of the public. Of major concern is the nature of how our democratic process is being hijacked by minority parties with huge financial backing with overseas interested influence. The malignancy of the Seymour disease is that it never dies, the host may pass away but racism, corporate greed, and the pursuit of a Eurocentric economic hegemony lives on an on like the aliens in the invasion of the body snatchers
I see this bill as a move to promote self interest of the dominant white privileged minority over those who choose to be part of our community of all people. We are all different in appearance, culture and environment, we must resist this bill and the person, with every peaceful means available. We must never go back to the White dominant ruling class of past centuries!
Māori & woman have had a 40-50 yr fight to gain equality with the white male in NZ society. We will not go back to those Patricial White Male days of the 1940's 50's
Nor should you expect to Rachel. Now and then I have to remind people that without women they wouldn't exist.
Accepted treatment for cancer…. Cut it, poison it, burn it!
Absolutely!!
He is an evil, slimy little shit. I like the idea of never mentioning his name (like the Chch shooter) to deprive him of oxygen.
Keith you just prompted a memory of one of my late husband's sayings "he's as smooth as a chocolate laxative!"
Great idea
Couldn’t have said it better.
Thanks Nick. The whole scenario is a sick, dangerous, dark fantasy. There was no reason to give it six months, apart from providing Seymour with a platform to projectile vomit his rhetoric. It will be unrelenting, whether we want it or not. Luxon and his ridiculous justifications - he was the naive one, but we're paying for it.
Do you really think he is naive? Or is his stupidly just because he’s a puppet and his puppeteer’s support Seymour as it provides a cover for so many more damaging changes occurring in a cloak of duplicity? I’m veering towards the second myself
The naive reference was really a response to his own comments, or should that be gaslighting, regarding compromises as part of coalition agreements. I do think he is naive in thinking that this wouldn't blow back on him. His "no responsibilities" approach to being PM has not precluded him from being responsible for EVERYTHING and we should keep reminding him of where our buck stops, and it should be uncomfortable.
I’m with you on the second option.
Same. The coalition have been transparent with their agenda since day 1. And moving at pace. Know the enemy. I notice the Albanese labour zone in Australia is now being flooded with shit!
We’re having our Brexit.
Absolutely!
Isn't Seymour in parliament by virtue of the National party giving him a free pass on the Epsom seat? Luxon could end this nonsense now. But that would take stem cell surgery to grow a spine.
Well said Neil. It continually irks me the likes of Jones, and others who seem to have voice and be powerbrokers, as in making changes, and they are there by being on the list, not having had to win electorates. (Jones didn't) But maybe our electorates have turned trumplike, they threw out a good government, not perfect, but with good heart and handling shite........and doing it's best for more kiwis than just the rich...........yes mate, I am in a state of irk............but balancing that with my own joy...............just not a lot of that in politics...............but some fricken inspiring haka on and off the field. :-)
Love your comments MRC!
thanks Judith
Epsom electorate may yet disappear…https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360464647/seat-epsom-facing-electoral-oblivion
We live and hope…
It will make no difference. 5% and he's safe.
That used to be the case with the Epsom jackup when ACT polled way lower. But even if Epsom disappears Seymour will be back provided ACT poll over 5%. And they are about double that at present.
Yes, you're right. Thanks to Luxon, he has a platform for his extreme views and the opportunity to hoover up the red neck vote!
Tautoko all of the above comments. I strongly agree with Jane - the equality piece of the Bill is the clincher - manipulation in action, for those who have no idea or inclination to understand the genesis of Te Tiriti and history of breaches.
I struggle to come up with a succinct response to the equality piece because I have found people don’t have the interest or bandwidth to take it in in a conversation (esp when minds are so made up) or do their own critical thinking on this one.
I watched the Q&A yesterday and I believe Debbie and all Maori and pro treaty politicians have to get more succinct and savvy with their messaging.
Yes I like the one that either Nick or Gerard Otto mentioned- it’s all about corporatisation of our assets - plain and simple
Yes Janine a convo to a closed mind is really challenging. There is a really lovely graphic out there that illustrates what we are trying to explain. This is the guts of it in a wordy way:
In Aotearoa New Zealand, equity is different from equality because equity acknowledges that people have different circumstances and needs, and allocates resources to help them reach an equal outcome:
Equality
Treating everyone the same by giving each person the same resources or opportunities.
Equity
Recognizing that people have different starting points and needs, and providing what each person needs to reach an equal outcome.
For example, if three people are trying to see over a fence, equality would be giving each person the same-sized box to stand on. Equity would be giving each person a box that is the right height for them to see over the fence, such as a step ladder for the basketball player and something much higher for the 6-year-old.
👍💯My favourite illustration! Perhaps we need it on a T-shirt - Nick was asking for feedback a while ago to counter people cancelling subs & I suggested merch - this would be PERFECT & me who doesn't usually do so would absolutely buy & wear everywhere! It is succinct, accurate, timely, and actually non-political as it is just facts 🤷🤔👏
Absolutely agree! Especially your comment re 'bandwith' it's exactly the wall that I encounter every time I attempt to challenge people who have such a simplistic view about what 'equality' means and how Maori have NEVER been afforded this luxury
Nick, I always enjoy your writing, but this time I think you've blown it all out of the water!!! Excellently written, and I agree with you 100%. As I read various posts and opinion pieces last night, it became more and more clear to me just what David Seymour, who still denies any association with the Atlas Network as far as I am aware, is a very active agent for this right-wing group, and that his real intention is to open up Aorearoa up to much more exploitation than it already is right now! He's dangerous to our society, which was successfully becoming a more tolerant place to be, applying the concept of kotahitanga well in recent years. I do believe that his obnoxious interventions have brought many of us closer together, but now we must apply our closeness by fighting his evil together, strongly and proudly. We must ALL make our submissions to his foul Select Committee and let him know how we feel about it, and work hard to counter the huge amount of disinformation he and his ilk will spread with their vast amounts of money on social media, etc, and we MUST win this battle. Then maybe we can convince him to go back to Canada and try to spread his bile around there, leaving this great little country to thrive as a successful multicultural society. Toitu te Tiriti!!!
Just read a post on Facebook which shows quite conclusively that Seymour is the Aotearoa agent for Atlas which in turn is a part of a much wider right wing group. The objective is to ensure anything or anyone stopping their pursuit of wealth is to be vilified and nullified. Taxpayers Union and other millionaires such as Gibbs family are those using Seymour who is of course a willing stooge educated by Atlas in Canada.
Seymour can't be an agent for Atlas, surely!? If he denies it, it must be true. A bit like that American guy, Trumpet, Strumpet, Dumpit, something like that, who's never heard of the 2025 Project for making America great (or grate) again. They wouldn't lie to us Mac, no way😱
👍💯I also follow Mountain Tui for Aotearoa updates (& some global) and there have been photos posted of Seymour at the top table at Atlas events... Unfortunately most people don't dig deep enough to even KNOW who these groups in the background are, let alone the significance of his associations, but as one of the Hikoi leaders said, all of us have to be the educators in our own spaces. For instance, an elderly relative was gobsmacked & distressed when he was told why ex-PM Jacinda & family can't safely come back to Aotearoa to live due to the unhinged hateful people who would harass her child, her husband, & say they want to rape, kill, hang, shoot, burn-at-the-stake Jacinda herself - how can anyone NOT know this⁉️😱 So with "equality" v "equity" & the truth of Te Tiriti - if we have the chance to educate ❤️🤍🖤
My work mate is an ACT supporter. He has no interest so far in looking into the Atlas network, but he is anti trump and shocked at Project 2025. He hasnt yet connected the dots. We need to help these people connect the dots.
There's nothing free and equal about the Act vision. Libertarians always seem to want to retain the police and army bits of the state to protect property rights which assumes an unequal spread of resources. And no doubt this isn't about rights at all, just the dismantling of environmental protections which would follow on from any weakening of Te Tiriti.
TJ Perenara's addition to the Haka was a stroke of genius. More so because he had support from all involved in the tour. I wonder how long it will take for the whingers to compare it to Hana-Rawhiti's also genius slap in the face of Seymour and his attempts to dilute or destroy any mana or culture Maori are trying to keep alive and relevant in their own country. Will they say that the AB's disgraced themselves and their country by their actions? Perhaps the call for suspension from the next World Cup would teach the blighters a lesson? No oranges at half time for the rest of the season? There's bound to be some who think our reputation overseas has been somewhat soured. For my money, a better farewell to a great career has never been made in any field. Well done TJP! On all counts.
So a serious question is how to respond in a brief coherent way to the section in the bill about equality. This section is agreeable to most people. It is a critical issue. It is the part which will galvanise support for the bill? Villifying any party or person does not help with that.
I approach it like this when I talk to people - look around at the Māori you know and see in society, your work mates, whoever - do you see any Māori privilege? We have a Bill of Rights, the fact that we seek to honour the Treaty, and in recognition of our failure to honour it to date have developed these Treaty Principles to give Māori a fair go is not a threat to anyone. Take a look at who gets more in this society, who has more say, control, and power - because it sure ain't Māori.
But I think vilification, or to use another word, opposition, is vital as the more Luxon realises people hate this bill the more likely he is to stick to his word and not support it through further readings or to a referendum.
Opposition is very important but it needs to include reasoned response not simply personal abuse. That is why i used the term. I appreciate this response.
You raise a good point and to be honest there was something nagging in the back of my mind that there needed to be more of a conclusion.
well said
I agree with you Nick Go well!
Thanks Judith 🙂
Seymour in his capacity as a government minister and effectively one party to the treaty is advocating the terms and conditions of the treaty are changed without agreement of the other party. There is no instance in civilized society or New Zealand where a unilateral adjustment of a treaty or contract is acceptable. It is illegal and immoral.
Q and A discussed this last Sunday.
Yes Rob the process so far is inblanced and illegal!!
Referring to the equality I don't see how the referendum can possibly be equal when there's obviously more Pakeha than Maori which is where equity comes in (correct me if I'm wrong). What I find interesting in our country is that Pakeha & Maori have mixed & matched happily over the years but some Pakeha don't recognize their Maori side & some Maori don't recognize their Pakeha side it seems to reflect on how you have been brought up.If the education system hadn't been so biased in the first place it may have made a big difference to how a lot of people view our country.
🙋From personal experience, I don't know many (if any) who identify as Maori who deny their other heritage/side. It seems simply that their PRIDE & cultural identity is for their Maori whakapapa so that is more meaningful & fulfilling 1) because that is their indigenous roots & 2) Pakeha/European "culture" is... What⁉️ Colonisation of other peoples by the elites while also treating their own poor & uneducated abominably? and/or being the poor/uneducated that were being treated abominably by the elites running their countries?
Sure if you dig there is "culture" on our Pakeha side, but 🤷⁉️
Apologies, as this is rather a long response! It's difficult to counter someone who, like Seymour, uses the language of universal human rights to oppress people who do not have equity, which of course is different to equality, as many people do not understand the difference between equality and equity. I teach human rights at a university, and arguments between 'universalists' and 'cultural relativists' in human rights have been going on for decades. A theorist named Jack Donnelly is useful (see for example Donnelly. 1984. Cultural relativism & universal human rights. Human Rights Quarterly, 6(4), 400-419) if you want to follow up this argument. Donnelly would describe Seymour as a radical universalist who uses the language of moral imperialism to conceal his real agenda. Here's an example: David Seymour said (12 October 2024, on Facebook): “Each of us is united by universal humanity. The same rights, the same dignities for every person. That is what has driven all the good movements in human history.” Hmmmmm ... BUT what about rights for people who are marginalised, oppressed, and disadvantaged? What about equity? What about restorative justice? Affirmative action? In Aotearoa New Zealand ‘positive discrimination’ is recognised as a lawful means of achieving equality. Donnelly (1984, p. 402) says “The dangers of the moral imperialism implied by radical universalism hardly need be emphasized. Radical universalism, however, is subjected to other moral objections as well. Moral rules, including human rights, function within a moral community. Radical universalism requires a rigid hierarchical ordering of the multiple moral communities to which individuals and groups belong. In order to preserve complete universality for basic rights, the radical universalist must give absolute priority to the demands of the cosmopolitan moral community over all other (‘lower’) moral communities. This complete denial of national and subnational ethical autonomy and self-determination is dubious at best.” I don't know whether this will help you respond to peoples' lack of understanding of 'equality' and 'equity' but you can try! It's often easier to just say look bro, it's a corporatisation agenda concealed by holier-than-thou bullshit rhetoric.
I can just add here: Claiming to support universal humanity and equal rights while actively working against the rights of a specific group contradicts the very principles of equality and dignity for all. True advocacy for universal human rights requires respecting and upholding the rights of every community, especially those historically marginalised or oppressed.
Very helpful
Totally agree Nick and really really proud of the AB's and not for the rugby, but this expression. As to the polite discussion or debate on the bill. It will be like the Oz version, there is so much silent and not so silent racism and ignorance out there, and peeps who peddle the 'maori elite' BS bandwagon. From what I have read in comments on several online spaces......there is nothing but vile hatred and antiquated views around race and equality..............totally ugly and depressing to read. So discussion, national discussion.............depends on media getting to truth and sharing it, depends on people being able to depolarise themselves and ask honest questions and challenge their world views. That don't happen easily, the wagons circle to prevent penetration and attack. Why is it many of us know what happened in Australia's dark underbelly of a history.................and yet they voted 'no' instead of 'yes'. I honestly have no hope that if such a referendum happens here , the result would be different. And I feel so ashamed having that dim view of my own fellow country people............but reading the comments of these online spaces, if they are even real people.................it's ugly and depressing, yet we seem to have a world where those voices are loudest, or silently admired and agreed with.
SO LOVE the cartoons in this excellent read NIck. Being a visual, I share my own 'visual' resistance to SeyLess and his schmuckery. Try'n to be positive, try'n to fight, try'n to not be overwhelmed into silence. After all a choir is made up of combined single voices, to become and sound like one voice.
As an Aussie, I felt a great deal of sadness and shame over the "No" vote for giving the founding Nation of Australia a voice in government that would be heard, heeded and included in the future plans for my country of birth and formative years. I'm also an AotearoaNZ citizen. I became one partly because of the above and partly because, after living here for over 50 years, I thought I'd probably stay so should make the effort. I would like to think I won't have two countries to be ashamed of. Seymour and Co must be brought to heel before they destroy the social fabric we have enjoyed for so long. All who live in Godzone deserve much better than that.
totally true Jeremy. in some ways it's like so much in the world, and that don't make it right eh, the majority is not always right. there is a dark underbelly (my fav word / term today :-) that exists like an underground stream, mostly in silence and not making it's presence known. then along comes something like this bill, or the Voice in OZ and you find out that what you knew was there on the edges of your consciousness and thought it was small, suddenly it is an underground river, torrent like and powerful...........and it goes against that fabric you mention, the fabric of kiwi society that was good. it goes against the fabric of who you/we are.
Then like you ...feelings of sadness and shame. especially when the mistruths and misinformation adhered to is so blatantly wrong, immoral and plain old ugly.
Opening our eyes to confront what is now evident is painful, the voices for justice and right seem muted in comparison, ineffectual in the current. how come we can open our eyes, be strong enough to re examine our positions, take on new information and 'they' can't. we can console ourselves partially by knowing it's not a new situation. america's not my fav word or space at the momento, but how long has the dark underbelly of racisim been there, like from the constitution and the equality of all, except the slaves and blacks. in oz, the hunting of the aboriginal as late as into the 50's, in Aotearoa there is much too much to mention against Maori and Pasifika that has been happening and not happening for generations.
Then the dark underbelly, the undegrground stream/river becomes real, and it's neighbours, friends and family. it takes a toll on us and responds to attention and roars the louder and threatens to over flow somewhere. thanks for engaging Jeremy, and choosing us. thanks for us having this conversation. (i am having a non caps kinda day, sorry)
Thanks for your reply MRC. Right on the money! Part of my growing up in Oz was as a jackeroo on a sheep station between Bourke and Brewarrina in western NSW. The hatred between black and white was more than an under current, it was there for all to see. White lines drawn on the floor of pubs, whites on one side, blacks on the other. The same for the only cinema in Bourke. I was advised to never go to Brewarrina because there was a big chance I wouldn't come back unscathed. I was 16 at the time with no idea how deep the divide was and probably still is. That's what disturbs me about what Seymour's mob is trying to introduce. Luxon isn't far behind with his comments about dissecting Te Tiriti and examining it bit by bit to see what can be done.
amazing eh..........I watch those movies about that time in Oz and find it hard to imagine people would be so cruel to ther human beings who are different.......and like the lynchings of the south..incredulous. Sheesh Jeremy....you have been there and lived it. I love the word mob, and forever will hear it as the aborigines use it. I love John Williamson, he makes me wanna be an ozzy. Songs about the land, Ullaru, The Drovers Boy............NZ doesn't have anyone like that, who sings and knows kiwi culture and makes ozzies wannabe kiwis LOL. Even Fred Dagg ended up over there.
I don't know why there cannot be more beauty and understanding and listening than perpetuating myths and misnomers. Whats ya take on pavalova? :-) Conflicted, or more important shite to think about. Have a neat wiki mate. Enjoying talking.......almost a lost art. Am enjoying a NetFlix series about a huge station up in the northern territory. Lotsa black fella issues and greed for the land. 1 episode to go. Been saving it up.
I don't really have a take on pavlova. As a citizen of both countries I can't lose😁....... Or win😕. Oz is a fabulous country to visit just to see and feel how vast it is. Mustering sheep in 40C temperature isn't much fun but the landscape and wildlife are well worth a look. Lying in a paddock at night looking up at the stars still stays with me vividly. The nearest manmade light pollution was about 50km away in any direction. Bliss. You just have to dodge the snakes😂
Totally agree with you McKinleyRd - I too feel the despair! Today I read an excellent article on newsroom by David Williams titled “Lessons from a damaged island on a potential treaty referendum” - basically lessons learnt by a NZ born lawyer and co-founder of the Good Law Project in the UK that forced the UK Electoral Commission to re-open an investigation into the Brexit campaign spending and warning us that in the NZ context the NZ’s legislative complacency provides fertile ground for a well funded misinformation campaign leading to a Brexit and The Voice style outcome a high likelihood if Te Tiriti goes to referendum. Scary…we must mount a more public campaign to respond to the growing platforms of misinformation and blatant racism regarding Te Tiriti, Maori and the Treaty Principles Bill. How can we get the voices of Nick, McKinleyRd Creative, Mountain Tui, Dr Bex et al out there to the wider public? So few of my friends and family even know about Substack until I share the articles with them.
Thanks Janine, will read that article. I think about that too, there are so many great people writing about stuff. I restack like a mad thing, but I have a feeling that it's a loop and the people that are open to a change of position or rational about evidence based writing and articles..........I don't know if the good oil gets to them........and the tribe or the converted, we basically encorage and keep ourselves to tack. Dunno, I could be wrong there....
My most radical self, thinks music, busking, street theatre...I would love that, and the other thing I do, not being on FB anymore, is poke a word in places that runs contrary to the flow of comments and maybe the patrons of online spaces.
So my 4 pronged approach is
1. Keep being me and creative, being as alive as alive as I can be.........if I am not me I have nothing to contribute, no fire, and no feisty soul to go into the frey.
2. Restack and promote articles on substack and other places, share notes, make notes......there is brilliant stuff out there...........and within that i want to be diverse too.........and not get in a rut.
3. Make graphics. I have those abilities and the software capacity...and the wit hopefully. I could make them for others.......and not AI stuff, which I think we become jaded to, as clever as it is.
4. Keep flying my flags in the top paddock
So those are my weapons............but I don't even know if people share that stuf or use it to get more traction .....it being a visual world and all that.
So thats my thinking...........but even in the election before I left FB, it was like being a voice in the wilderness.....................there are the favoured few that seem to get traction, while my take is promoting all who are in my tribe of resistance or revolution. Same old same old doesnt work........so trying to understand the enemy (for want of a better word), where they hang out, what are the chinks in their positions and arguments............and creatively try to take action that may just make a difference.................
That's a rave, and it's not the first time I have wondered about your question and said something about it. There comes a point where a collective approach will be more powerful.................instead of strong individualism...............but I dunno if we are there or will ever get there. It has to become about pushing others out of the nest to fly.............
Really appreciate you Janine. Have an awesome as Monday evening. I got some shizzel done today......and it feels good.
What you are doing is amazing - your strong individualism is inspiring- Kia kaha!
I wonder if among our community here in Substack there are networks to make contact with about a strategy, platform and messaging that reaches the wider mainstream community.
It would be interesting to know. A Collective For Change, and maybe with the focus of strategising and working at getting the message where it might be heard……..I would be in.
Ae, Tautoko! Great idea!
Here is the link to the newsroom article
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/11/25/lessons-from-a-damaged-island-on-a-potential-treaty-referendum/
Apologies for sending the link and not realising it was not the full article. Arohamai.
That looks like a great article, but have to subscribe to read........cheers J
Dark fantasy, for sure.
Exactly my thoughts Nick.
Still can't believe the fast-track bill gets five minutes consultation, and this bill gets six months so the forces of darkness and ignorance can convince the lazy and infirm to vote for it. Both are very dangerous, promoted by a completely hypocritical Coalition of Clowns.
Let me know if this article becomes sharable please.
It is shareable, it's open to all.
Worse!! He’s trying to wipe out history.
By challenging challengers to his bill by asking them to ‘explain’ why his bill is bad is his attempt to wipe history. That horrific part when we landed and began stealing land, women, liberty. Do ya reckon he’s completed a Te Tiriti workshop anyone??
Toitu TJ!
Seymour (and Atlas) have done something that every mischievous person who opens a conversation with "Is there any truth in the rumour that......" to sew seeds of doubt and fear in the minds of anyone who hears it, has done.
He has an agenda. He gets a lot of coverage in the "news", the makers of which need a sharp jolt to stop them knee-jerking into broadcasting his views.
I tend to ignore him, but I also tend to ignore the "news" too.
Promoting positive thoughts are more my line.
Brilliant Nick. Seymour is the cancer no one invited, very aptly put. But the trouble is his 'one law for all' is very catchy and hard to dispute and for many middle, average, and partially informed kiwis it resonates. I listened to him on Q&A with Jack Tame and his argument would have found favour with much of the public. Of major concern is the nature of how our democratic process is being hijacked by minority parties with huge financial backing with overseas interested influence. The malignancy of the Seymour disease is that it never dies, the host may pass away but racism, corporate greed, and the pursuit of a Eurocentric economic hegemony lives on an on like the aliens in the invasion of the body snatchers